VOLUME 83 Grady Clay Journals

February 18, 1981-July 26, 1981

(Harry Weese, Richard Hunt, Garrett Eckbo, Costantino Nivola, James Rosati, Grady Clay, Hideo Sasaki, Pietro Belluschi,  and competition advisor Paul Spreiregen (P.S.) Robert Doubek, dir. of Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund.)

Monday April, 26, 1981

Page 143: 

P.S. 1421 received designs.  I’ve gone thru all to see if meet requirements. Then graded to three categories.  Looked for those that already failed (5% or 47) to meet requirements. (2 black lines).  I hope you will see everything that’s ….  The 2nd group: I looked for those that were totally absurd- about 760=1/2 (BLUE).  About 421 tried hard but didn’t make it (YELLOW).  This leaves about 200 really worth it (RED). Within this group-A) really good / “probably the best”  B)quite good.  I’ve mixed them up. 

As we choose the best, put in corral.  Remember the CRITERIA (esp. at the end)

1. honors the memory (those who served -2 ½ million, 57,000 died)

1. Of the highest artistic merit (a great memorial)

1. without political context (“ we do not want a war memorial”

1. displays names -- 57,962 who died

1. harmonious and integral with site’/ cannot challenge Lincoln Memorial or Washington Monument-deferential to them

1. suitable presence but not too commanding

1. to be one that gains approval/ Several agencies NPS (National Park Service), NCPC (National Capital Planning Commission) and Commission of Fine Arts 

P.S. view: NPS doesn’t want the Mall stuffed up with memorials.  Very friendly to us and this project-don’t want a big maintenance problem.  Ex. -- a lot of annual flowers or a lot of moving water/persuaded them that the water could be modest. It’s killed a lot of good designs –Eckbo.

Eckbo: wot takes no maintenance is rocks.

Weese: I’m not gonna close my mind to water.

Rosati: who’s driving the cart?

P.S. if you decide one design, go with it. I only want to convey their concerns.

Page 144: 

Weese-I’ve been fighting all these agencies all my life…I look on all these people as the enemy.

Sasaki- Can the walkway system be used?

P.S.-we asked them to stay generally within the curve line.  This was done by local landscape architect working with SOM (overall design)

This site NEVER had temp. buildings on; good soil here- though it was once filled.

They could sabotage it.

Eckbo-The people who do maintenance have the last word.

P.S. Paul Spreiregen- This is a WET site- 15’ to 22 ½ feet above sea level.  Any depression will require pumps plus expense.

Re Approval

NCPC - David Childes was chair til recently.  His pride of authorship is real.  That design should be respected. It was suggested by NCPC staff he be on the jury.  He turned it down.  The staff will probably look for “continuity” with his design.

Weese- We should remember these may not be built.

Paul S.-“Quite simply the head of NPS doesn’t like it.” (recall Halperin’s FDR memorial) but everybody wants to support this.  

Doubek:  We’ve got very powerful friends like Sen. Warner.

You are the jury.  We have to go over hurdles with the Agencies- that’s another step.

Sasaki asks- re procedure for jury?

P.S.- If you walk through = 4 hours- just to glance at each.  One aisle= 6 minutes, both sides.

Weese- I’d rather start in Red Zone and keep the blue at end.

P.S. Put your decision in writing- you should formally inform the VNM (Viet Nam Memorial)) group- let them ask questions- choose between 2-3 prizes.

If no consensus: let’s wait.

GEC- am at first list today. Final space holds 40.

Page 145:

Weese- In Pittsburgh 97 entries-jury split on ideological grounds. Carter Brown had the swing vote.

Sasaki- Go through and in and out.  All day sum up- All entries are numbered.

P.S.- We accepted late arrivals if they had a good excuse.

12:30 lunch break

Entries (Begin with red choice group)

1114- Maze of Names       

437- Axis through walls/ names focus on Washington Monument

735- Sundial and radius of names

1045- Beautiful pair of crystalline towers 

10:47 am-(finish first aisle)

728- series of concave shells facing s/se ( Why not axis to Wash. Mon?)

235 Trees should arise by marker- markers in a grove around quiet pool. (Why a separate border)

117- the single plinth- pure geometry 22’ high – memorable 

970- beautiful sculptured shape, - to view and walk into- no-dangerous?

11a.m.- finish F-K; K-L

109- complex yet simple sculptured shape (but nothing more)

1055- “a symbolic landscape”- folded, fractured, mounded, molded”

225- Is an integral part of the site. Layered masonry angular amphitheater faces Washington Monument- a walk through , 6” risers, most ingenious so far in concept . I don’t like the stainless steel risers with names) 

Finish K-L at 11:20

L-M

016- A time of wheat- 3900 sheaves- each with 15 names (too fragile) a bit tricky

343- “a nation divided” large permeable sculpture

195- granite glass dice rolled out across the green, grid forest of columns with a great green in center

413- Columns with a flame at top of each long oval in shape of Viet Nam (high energy cost) 

Finish L-M at 11:35

Page 146

M-N

#443 cupped hands- beautiful light-copper

Strike # 605 (only because it’s only one so far to show a sculpted figure of Vietnam itself-under a roof)

#1100   imaginative use of spent cartridge cases in sculptured figure designs just another semi–circle

Stet #1037 “fallen figures” at end of line (not a fully developed idea; no majesty or scope 

Finish M-N at 11:45 Go to N-O walls

 #777 “a house ruin”- houses walls oversized

 #905 giant leafless tree sculpture-name-tablets arranged around it  (but what signify?) 120 feet high

#273 -Excellent technique - photo montage skillfully done

End N/O at noon 

O/P

#425 with white homing pigeons-whole design depends on these birds! But overall design is too diffused with array of name bearing walls.

#439 – well integrated pool and memorial oval design

End P at 12:15 Now go to Yellow aisle 8-9

#198 sculptured landscape (a la DuBuffet) yet geometric.  Has some maze qualities.  Yet overall a bit smallish.

#324 – giant sculptured figure arising thru sculptural “flames.”

Finish 8-9 at 12:20 Enuf!  10-11 at 1:35 start.

Aisle 10-11 Yellow

Resume 1:35 pm 10-11 Yellow

#144 – striking camouflaged star

#122 -- great alighting birds in center / pyramid group

 good (but awkward “cages” around it for names)

#787 – 20 glass prisms 12x25x2

Page 147

#760- glass prisms raised on conical mound Rheostat lighting. 

Aisle 11-12 Yellow
#879- Golden eternal ring & 4 Caryatids  (34 inches tall) surrounding a copse of dogwoods with name wall encircling 

#888- “Boot sculpture court”
Aisle 12-13 yellow:

#1013- Terraced cone with sq. memorial court and fallen columns. (Purple-green sketches)  “The soldier’s sacrifice”

Aisle 14-15 yellow

#1066- giant, tilted obelisk--white marble. Also it points SW? Why?

Sketch shows pointed base but model shows flat top.  Reconcile

Good strong image! 

Aisle 15-16 yellow:
#493- “The mountain torn apart”- circle of columns 

Arising in midst of the open split. (But not cleanly executed)

#470- lot with “oriental” shape to roof of memorial structure.

#698- also with pagoda roof structure

Aisle 16-17 yellow 

#489- Wall (20x38x92 feet) of figures 

Each 10 inches high from 200 diff. molds

#404- rough stone huge single structure\

#387- vacant quizzical faces of figures (Harry Weese)

Aisle 17-18

# 1026- “black gash”- hard polished black granite. 

#712- an event- cutting names by laser

#1314- fragmented steps. A kind of maze (split into triangular shapes… majestic ruins in white concrete.)

#045- suspended “airships” 

Stop @ end of aisle 18- 3pm
[at 2 weeks each this=90 

man-years years- says Paul S. re: hand chiseling names

for discussion- (symbolism 

              (unity of concept & clarity }= imageability and memorability.   

Page 148:

Discussion: Symbolism

Eckbo – doubts we can just judge form and space

Harry Weese- I can’t isolate anything  I look for simple things

I look for water, liked bamboo 

Sasaki- I see a pattern= 1 characteristic

walls – circle in room

slabs – radiating or marching field or rows

columns – 

floors

combinations – architectonic, sculptural, symbolic, flags,

  some abstract

The nature of a memorial is difficult. In our design we get 

self conscious.               

  Program says “simple meditative.” 

Therefore it means horizontal not vertical.

Difficulty- not too assertive or competitive. Yet distinct work of art.

Belluschi- I don’t see that as conflict.

I don’t want to go back to figures as expression of humanity-but it is touching to the general public- would 

ring the bell. I plea for 2 or 3 promising- the human tragedy of the maimed and killed be considered.  “Roughness”
                                   

I want “a memorial” not just a piece / landscape 

Sasaki- our sculptors should speak to this.

Nivola- I didn’t see any professional sculpture. 

Rosati- The figure is the most complex of all things in sculpture. Nothing out there qualifies. 

Bellushi- cites Zadkind at Rotterdam. 

Rosati- We don’t have a Maillot here! Using a figure to illustrate- you’re not into art but into journalism. When Rodin used figures- that’s poetry. 

Eckbo- we should look at total design as “sculpture” 

Rosati- Criticize the “funerary arrangements” out there…

R. Hunt- now people want figures again-they’re part of the sculptor’s vocabulary. The problem: we can’t call up the entire vocabulary when we need it!

GEC- unfinished

            warped

            frustrated

GEC- I learned                                      

Sasaki- not a memorial to the war! 

Spreiregen: we do not want expression of divisions

Yet to honor the memory of those who died.

Yet the Lincoln Memorial would probably displease Lincoln.

Page 149:

Sasaki: we don’t have a common language. I began to look for serenity and not conflicts. More horizontal 

Re Buildings:

Spreiregen: If we get designer who’s able, he’ll have the lead responsibility. If not we’ll bring in others to add to the execution.

Rosati- something terrific happens when you move the sculpture outside. 

Garrett Eckbo -- a number of nice ideas out there that are incomplete.

Rosati- many of them don’t fit the site! 

Belluschi-- The Fosse d’Ardenne [Cemetary and Memorial at Ardenne] is about death.

Rosati- Brancusi’s kiss is terrific. 

A cut column has a tremendous ambience

How avoid making death such a big factor? 

Belluschi- If it’s too simple, it ceases being a memorial- Must have identity.

Sasaki- from these site plans- the extent of the names is overwhelming.

When they split up the names, it loses strength. 

Belluschi- They have to be alphabetical. 

Rosati- I was hoping to see something Egyptian!  With that great combo of sculpture and inscriptions.

Belluschi- not use bronze- they’ll be stolen!

Hunt- you can attach bronze plaques! 

Copper will streak..

Weese- they’ll get knocked off! 

GEC- putting all names together could by one criterion. 

Sasaki- In setting criteria like that, it’s dangerous.  I wouldn’t preclude having names scattered.. 

Next step- discuss why and why not

Then- agree on narrowing

So shift Tuesday pm  to Wednesday am

Page 150:

Aisle 18-19 start 4:20 pm (none)

Aisle 19-20 

#1229- giant clasped hands and broken sword. (73’ high)

 (militaristic) (rest of design is insignificant)

# 1204- giant inner- illuminated cube with light shining thru government seal. 

# 1253- earth sculpture—hard to read 

TUESDAY Aisle 20-21

# 1311- giant replica of medal of honor

# 1309- “a tear for the fallen”

# 1321- star shaped forest of plinths with memorial court in center.

# 1276- 

Discussion at 9:45 a.m- 

Sasaki notes that the Commission of Fine Arts will not approve a vertical scheme that might compete with the Washington Memorial or the Lincoln.

[but? Still open: how high?] 

PS: i.e.: we must conform to the program Sasaki: i.e. “conform in the good sense”

PF: you could look for the designs that support or complement the larger memorials. 

Sasaki-- we should talk this out. We’re operating on a very wide range of personal criteria. 

GEC- my values are uniqueness and clarity. 

Rosati-- it has to come through the eye. 

Belluschi-- there has to be some suggestion of the human tragedy.  – visually satisfying. But the eye plays tricks. Visually the atomic bomb is a beautiful sight. The sense of serenity is beyond the visual… the berm that separates it from cars is essential to serenity.  

Rosati- Our responsibility is to place this in the highest order we can- many in public will not comprehend that 

Page 151:

until they come and experience it. We should expose them - mind and spirit - do not come down to common denominator. 

GEC- We're called to project ourselves through the work so one of my criteria is: how it feels to move thru it.

Richard Hunt- the Names should be visible-- but what about paraplegics and old people in years to come? They will need ease of entry. Simplicity is 

Belluschi- Re glass- it can be made unbreakable with a hammer. 

The perception of fragility is there- will it endure? 

If it has great merit we probably accept. 

Rosati- at that scale it looks commercial. 

Belluschi- learning from Las Vegas- we might be willing to accept. 

Rosati--it could outlast bronze etc.

- this glass is terribly expensive

Belluschi- vandalism is a factor- we should consider that. 

Polished granite or glass will resist paint. 

Paul- cast metal has tremendous capability to resist. 

Rosati- how much attention should we pay to high walls? 

Sasaki- 8’ is max for name. 

Rosati- you lose ambience above 8’.

Paul S- as generations pass, names will mean less personally. If you ask people who come to Lincoln Memorial if they are paying homage to his death, you would shock them. It has become one of the great sites -- by aesthetic quality.  It’s a beautiful place. 

Harry- I see the names as an attraction. 

PS- we do have names available by year of death. 

Rosati- can the Viet Nam Veterans Foundation protect the maintenance? 

PS- it’s up to NPS- if they like it they’ll maintain it. 

Weese- I didn’t see much landscape architecture.

Sasaki- it’s a totality- that may involve landscape architecture elements. 

Page 152

Sasaki- I expected more vegetation plans …

Sen. Warner hoped there be a whole grove of dogwoods. 

Eckbo- Ultimately this is an environment of grass and trees and those entries that are not conceptually separated from the surrounding. 

Sasaki- most entries used walls or broke them down into columns. Few used floor.

We should be generous with honorable mentions. 

Spreiregen- I suggest you have a class of “commended” 

Sasaki- wants a book to come from this

GEC- no sacred grove.

Weese- there is an impoverishment in all this. 

Sasaki- if you use floor scheme, have aisles without disrespect. 

Belluschi- Mussolini had one of those..

-back to Japanese Ryoan-ji. It’s impressive- but it will be messed up here in Western society. 

Sasaki- a minimalist work could be evocative here. 

Belluschi- Everyone sees what he is prepared to see in minimalist architecture. 

Plan- - complete your list.

review and grade them ( #1-2-3. 

Give to Paul by 3 pm. 

Aisle 20-/21      

#1308- “sacred grove”

#1346- helicopter in revetment 

Page 153

Aisle 21-22

#1331- small forest 12 pylons each- 1 year; of gray marble aggregate. Sharp tops.

Finish @ 11 am.   

#225 Recap notes on wound. 

Herbs= “first growth over disturbed ground” 

Grid “borrows from the city’s layout scheme” 

Strong berm around NW

Open end toward Wash. Monument 

This is landscape sculpture. 

#1322- “salute” (or “Venus Fly Trap”--GEC)

#1349- long peninsula with great rock at end.

#060- giant helmet and bronze dog tags (with hole for sunlight)

#073- most unusual giant sculptural shape. Geo. Washington profile horizontal

#0856- another quote from Kerr’s “Dispatches”, NY Knopf, 1977

#069- great shapes- giant Henry Moore- type jointed procession. 

Discussion 3pm Tuesday 

Sasaki- we have to go thru program to be certain we are clear: 

“Contemplation and reflection”

Harmonious with the site and C. Gardens

Names legible. 

Open and accessible

Construction costs 3 million

Normal maintenance 

Water limited

Materials enduring and weather well.

Should we consider an alternate.  NO says PS.  Choose 1-2-3  

Sasaki- normally if #1 is rejected, the whole thing is ended. # 2-3 will not be built. That’s the rule.  

PS- Jan Scruggs said decided on 

max of 7 million and as goal to raise money. 

Belluschi- There’s no James Roosevelt to stop this. 

PS- no other vets groups have jumped in to use this. 

Heard nothing so far.. the big factors are 

NPS- who are the operators     
(NCPC don’t want a “building”) 

Best-- Honor the memory 

            And is a work of art 

Page 154: 

PS- “ it cannot be bombastic!” 

It must belong in and to this place.

Eckbo- next step is to weed them out… and compare them.

PS- will put “score” on each one selected.  Dennis Reeder set this.

Wednesday a.m.: 

All reorganized so all that got any votes are now gathered together. 

241 designated (with 1 vote or more)

7 got 4 votes (in court) 10 got 3; 53 got 2 votes

& 162 got only one vote. Thus 70 got more than 1 vote. 

Discuss how to proceed: 

Sasaki suggests go thru the #1 area “where each of us stands alone” and reconsider how to eliminate as many as possible of the single choices.

As I go there I find some of my choices easy to eliminate because they are not contemplative- but are too busy, contrived on lacking in true unity and coherence

Weds.  2pm – 30 #1’s left.  90 total to consider

42 #2’s to look at now and 21 #3’s and #4’s.

3pm We’re down to 19 of today’s cut from 90 with 14 #3’s and #4’s left= 33 remaining. 

39 in 13 groups (2 to 4 per group)

winding walls, squared away. Focus on concept. on-line. On line with accent, on-line with sculpture axes. Circular pool, partial circle, ellipse, minimal circle, multiple circles, enclosed circle (sanctuary) 

Page 155: 

Exhibit 

40 rows mostly

30 are +/-  110’ = 3300    

10 “           70         +700                 

                               4000-mostly both sides

                                -290

                              3710 feet

This was to have [been] in the Pension building, but the Vassar Book Club got there 1st.

Thurs: GEC notes on final 39

278- the chief “game” or  activity  with 6 moving at slow pace along the “wall” an array of granite blocks.  But this is a cramped space and one’s attention will be diverted by others passing in the narrow confines. “seats” are as close as +/- 5’ from block.

382- all-symbolic of woman-mother. Aperture (“wound”) is too antiseptic.

984- “a single unifying mass (retaining wall)[524’ long] with 60, 161 names.  Opening to South, SE.  This strongly emphasizes the names.

There is no other “experience” for the visitors. 

1372- Multi-fact hexagons of steel; Too tricky. 

850- 5 tall shafts on squares balanced on one end in pool in square        big walled box. 

1145- “flag” draped over site, trees. 

on raised pedestal

171- column of square prism -- a forest. 

069- the great processional sculpture; Paul S. its easy to lie with a perspective.

878- (Black background) 

373- Long white rectangle (minimalist )

375- Complexity

1032- Long column with fallen figures at end (too final!)

123- 

Page 156-

Discussion

Sasaki-- quality is still erratic 

We could eliminate 10 

(I’ve got 14 to eliminate ) 

Then eliminate down to the end.

Eckbo- re culture: – 2 things people will look for. 

1. Name or names to be read. 2. a memorable experience that will make this special. Two kinds of context- look back at death, look forward to life. It has to combine both 

GEC- loc

Nivola- the locus is so important- 90% of the monument is already done. So that any presence there- strong presence- should be contrapuntal- modest- independent of the artistic quality, I’d hesitate to see anything (reinforces) controversial that glorifies the war. 

Sasaki- I agree in large part the fitness to the site is very important and is one of the mandatory requirements of the program. So the scheme need not in of itself be of such design strength as to hold its own. It’s not in a city plaza with the necessity to have…        This should not be a focalizing monumental idea but fit the context. 

We should look for a good clear idea and for quality.  (Therefore I’ll eliminate 15 or 20)  I'm happier today than yesterday. If we give 18 must eliminate 21.

Up to [15 get HM @ $1000 each]

Paul: "generosity will be very good here"

Harry-- but if I have to go back out there I'd rather catch a plane home. [We seem to agree to stick within this group of 39 for all awards and mention.] 

Weese-- this was the new world discovered 500 years ago- 

This was the new city- but when you stand there you only see Washington and Lincoln and not much of the secular.                 

Where else in Washington do you have such an open site? 

Therefore we must avoid trivia and unnecessary distractions. 

Page 157

Belluschi- the danger of trivia (the meat of it) .. you do have the wonderful so  

Any permanent brass flame becomes trivial -which demeans the dead but danger is to have it so understated that no "memorial" is achieved. 

Some practical things: where you have a cleft in the ground, must be sure people don’t fall and break neck-thou it can be fenced.  The question of water is it gets trashy.  Some have enormous paved area and I suppose that’s necessary- but maybe it should be grass-- pavement gets hot.

Sasaki- when we come to final, I’d hate to penalize a great idea because these practicalities… yet it should meet all criteria. 

Belluschi- 2 or 3 have sculptures- we have to rely on the sculptor for quality. 

Paul- 2 conditions: if author needs more help, you could recommend he team up with a specialist.   But if it’s a sculptor, you have to use him, though he can join up with another skilled person.

You have to judge whether the design can be realized. 

The sponsor can own the design and legally (?) could hire somebody else. 

a risk- that author might hire another who could screw up the final job. 

if you choose one requiring further study, you should say what that is. 

GEC- lets try 1st cut. 

#757- reject

#939- (bamboo thickets) reject

#804- Wisteria ring. Eckbo- awkward- Belluschi keep.

039- reject

933 -reject

615- reject

235- "graves in forest"?

844- reject

Page 158

452- the great open saucer

199- reject

117- needle- keep 

1177- the bosque of metal bamboo

635- reject

1100- 

1043-

998- reject

970- 

194- reject

1026- keep

594- reject

530- 

123- "one man show on a park "

489- keep (bronze wall)

238- hold

123- hold

1037- hold

375- hold

373- reject

878- out

1171- out

850- out " like a stage set"

1372- out

984- in

382- out                                                      /22 left

Page 159- 

11:15- We’re get ready to look at last 22 for 3 groups: Awards,  HM [honorable mentions] and rejects

HM                                          AWARD                                  X 

804                                                                                        970

933

235

452                                            117

1177

1100 possible

1043

723                                             579

489                                            1026

                                                   343

123 "messed up Machu Picchu") 238

1037                                          375

069

1145

984

**Paul- we discovered name on # 278 Berardesco-- scripted on a stone- Disqualify!

Now they are brought up for us to examine while seated.

The 6 award candidates:

#117; The needle. "The sculptural content is strong" says Sasaki. 

Rosati- it presents integrity and serenity.  The center is mounded.  

22' ht. is good scale, a simple pure design. Offers opportunity for beautifying landscape around. lighted at night. will not mess up the park. It compliments Lincoln Memorial. Sasaki- it’s very subtle .  It’s symbolic of flame without being an actual flame. Rosati- It’s celestially bound, not earth bound…. 

Page 160

#343- "The gate" processional            Readily perceived. 

tension

release

done with  simplicity - memorability.

Rosati- it offers opportunity for meditation- tho admit its "Brancusish"

Belluschi- You would walk on the names? not necessarily.

spiral: 32" wide 980 ft. long with names. 

Rosati- I don't like the idea of them walking on names, I admit 

Hunt- I’d rather see a contemporary solution, but I'm impressed by this form (needle)- but not the rest.  I find to reject them- you follow them not a way out. 

Sasaki asks- you could argue that you spiraled inward and that there is an escape up. 

We think this is traditional sculpture. 

Do you sense this as dated? 

Nivola- it’s dated!                                                     ( we are having far more detailed discussion!) 

Belluschi- I don't think you could build that sculpture without guy wires. 

Weese- It would bend in gusts. 

Rosati- Look at Oldenberg’s Bat Column- +100’  it stands up.

Hunt- I think this is not a problem.  It’s bronze. Would be lighted- will end up kinda green.

Eckbo-what do people do- come- look - leave? or do they linger? and do what?  What kind of space is this for people to use?

Sasaki- That’s not important if it evokes strong feelings to observers. 

Eckbo- it indicates a short thing, to view with respect- but then go.

Sasaki- it is commemorative and reflective. 

Eckbo- in 15 secs or 5 minutes?

GEC- Once you see it, what else is there?

Belluschi- has trouble with walking on the names. 

Nivola- It should be a real Brancusi. 

#579

Weese- this can be read as a rocket  

This is agony and you could better get in a film

Page 161

579- Sasaki points to excellent portrayal of names on semi-circular wall!

Rosati- not much to discover

Weese- I can't connect these figures to war-no ambiguity

Are they playing soccer? He blew it

he wants to….

Sasaki- I think the sculptor who did the wall- it’s one piece.

I don't think any one of us can buy the sculpture. 

even if its dated, one can accept it if its well done.

Nivola- if kept at a small scale 

Rosati- What this does is illustrating. Is that what we want to do?

Eckbo- It’s making demands on us.

Weese- We've seen a worldwide change. There are plenty of these around. 

Paul- We asked not to have a "war memorial"

GEC- Any of these figures become a war memorial to me. 

Rosati- No war memorial I can think of is really great art

GEC- [here I read inscription]

He’s limiting your participation. 

Belluschi- We're children of our own age- we have difficulty to [understand] representational art.

I don't think of this as a war memorial.  I feel there is a wall here, I like the nobility of the wall- easy to read- the sculpture leads a memorial quality to the wall. This is more memorable than the flame. 

This is the figure and it’s eternal.

He’s an old timer (no

Let’s move on.

#1026- 

It’s a strong idea.

Sasaki- Probably by a minimalist sculptor.  I don’t think a rank amateur could have this sophistication

Belluschi- NPS is gonna put railing. 

Eckbo- Anything we do will spoil it. 

Sasaki- It's dangerous.

Weese- That geometry is totally eloquent. This is the evocation that responds to the whole. 

[ I READ THE inscription 

Belluschi- He knows what he’s doing all right..

Page 162

Can the names be read? Some? 

Hunt- Those who want to read will take the time. 

GEC- Do we need to defend it?- because it cannot defend itself clearly. 

Rosati- How practical is it to go down 10'?

Hunt- He'd have to build up 5' and dig down 5' and have a catch basin. 

Weese- Don’t see this will be a muddy scene. 

Washington is a white marble city. This will be the only dark memorial.

Hunt- It never looks really black- you get reflections 

Hunt- I'd rather defend our idea like this than that "sculpture" 

Weese- I'm encouraged at what we’re is saying.  I think we can come away from this proud.

#238-

GEC- which up to now leaves me cold

I look again and see the C aperture as a kind of funnel.

Regimented "troops" coming in from N and broken disarray at south. 

Weese- A mingling of waters

GEC- There’s no way to go there

Belluschi- There is a missing element- not consistent.  I'm taken aback by those things that represent soldiers. 

Weese- What does the break in the wall mean? 

Script- [does not come thru to me!]

far fetched symbolism 

That’s become the fashion…. All the verbiage is on the wall.

Eckbo- It has to explain itself and justify its own existence. 

Sasaki- It has an explanation. It’s powerful. (2 kinds of walls- dark light) 

Recommend this for Honorable Mention    AGREED. 

#375- 

Sasaki- explaining: glass floor. lit under. 12' wall winds

tunnel to chapel room, emerge into pleached grove to E and then to lawn

Belluschi- Continuity (visually expressive.)  Protected from traffic.  I like it very much, but the hidden places may be place for mugging etc. 

Page 163

Continuing  #375 narrow throat is 15'wide by 12' hi. 

Eckbo- This is most interesting sequence of places. 

Belluschi- It has all the quality of a memorial with capital M. 

Has a real quality of form.

Sasaki- I like the sequential, different experiences with surprises. 

If pavilion - omitted or used only on special occasions. 

Also memorial grove is fine. 

End up with sense of release.

The most successful architectonic- it’s a candidate for award. 

Weese- It’s a very special use. It’s ambiguous. Would you go only once? It’s hidden and Washington not a hidden place. Washington is different. I don’t know how. 

GEC- Is too complex- alcove is. 

Weese- Why the tall wall?

Sasaki- Could work if wall were lower. You could modify it without wrecking the scheme. 

Rosati- The court seems to be an office building. 

Weese- Doesn’t this verge on a war memorial? 

It’s a lugubrious feeling.

GEC- I don’t find it a simple plan to understand

Eckbo- It could be unpretentious if it weren’t for that heavy wall.

Weese- I feel that behind those names there should be ashes.

Sasaki- He has thought thru the design quite carefully.

Weese- The acoustics are? - like a megaphone

Belluschi- I'm bothered by the superimposition of wall on the space. 

Weese- The path is a little rigid- in one side, out the other.

Nivola- It appears to be a difficult problem to solve. He did his best. 

Weese- Awful lot of people will never know it’s there.

Hidden places tend to be forgotten-or get taken over by special groups.

Eckbo- That’s a big entrance 

If you look for form, it’s is closest thing to a landscape garden. 

And therefore quite different, a sequence of spaces. 

No decision

Page 164

#343

Eckbo- The most exciting merging of the 2 axes 

Weese- I was suddenly realizing this represents defeat.

Belluschi- I feel very moved by this. Strong - optimistic he can carry it thru.  Very suggestive, there is some symbolism- bridge between 2 fragmented societies quite…       

GEC- It’s very powerful to me.

Not if the floor were grass. 

Eckbo- will get worn out.

Sasaki- Pavers with grass growing thru flat floor makes it more brutal.

Eckbo- It should be raised a bit more.

Belluschi- if the land is manipulated further - you have added symbolism of healing loyalties.  That will be easy to explain to laymen 

Weese- Yes- Nothing here that can't be covered.. I'd strip the names under the shadow.

Rosati- it's a powerful form! (the soaring element)

Sasaki- This is contemplative and powerful as hell!

(it compares with the other)

GEC- A tremendous point of transition

Rosati- Unless bronze is cared for, it gets dark and dirty. Heroic feeling- I'm excited about combo of bronze and walls. It doesn’t have that somber depressing feeling...

The only one close to this is /\

Weese-It’s a triumphal arch.

GEC- But rough and incomplete.

Belluschi- Only one without obvious symbolism.

Thinks walls should be curved not rigid.

Hunt- It oughtn’t be done in this instance.  It’s a fine memorial to something else. (In other words you don't like it!)

Page 165

Weese- It bespeaks movement to me.

It doesn't open up a great scope of the mall but once you're thru it does.

Eckbo- The incompleteness appeals to me- we’re creating more…

Weese- Back to this war, we lost our ascendancy in Viet Nam. 

That is the crater- It’s understated

I don't see us celebrating-not making a commotion.

Hunt- We talk of bridge- triumphal arch- it’s the belief in progress that led us to where we are.  The idea that we can fling a bridge around and solve things.

I come back to the other (/\) .. a lot of something without being much of anything. This one continues the process of funding etc. It presents both solution and challenge. 

Eckbo- But it’s a dead end you see. 

This (#343) you go thru.

Weese- ^ [thinks the gash] would be something special. i don’t know of any other place in the world like that. 

GEC- I'd say (in future) "What the hell was all that about?”

Rosati- I feel we're reading more into it then the sculptor.

Art is like an empty vessel [ie. you can pour into it your own meanings and hopes. - GEC]

What would it look like in 10 years?

Weese- It’s the simplest of them..

Eckbo- a confused age needs a simple answer. 

Belluschi- It’s simple- you don't see it in context. It’s a piece of abstract art.  We're taken by the childish aspect which we can complete.. but it has to be carved there to be understood by people. I’m afraid it will not be successful. It’s so minimal, constrained. 

Sasaki- we can't judge drawing- but what will be there.  Will it have to be raised?  Must walks be built?  Must it be fenced? Is this….

Page 166

Weese- I object to this imputing guilt. 

This is the only one of only names. The ground subsided and on the rock were the names.

The white marble (#375) is too much with us. 

We have here a negative building. 

We know how to handle these construction details.

Rosati- This has to be foolproof. 

Weese- This is so inexpensive, you….

Paul S- We did in program give info on ground water. 

Low part of site ( +- 12 1/2’) is soggy in wet weather and not place you can walk on. 

I've tried to locate it on the site. The point of the V

If you consider it in section he’s down to elev. + 5.

Lake is elevation +10. Therefore he’s got a hydraulic problem

You can encounter groundwater from +16 to +4

But underpasses are lower than that but stay dry.

You could "let it flood" but is that feasible?

Sasaki- Could the site be rearranged?

Paul- Yes it could be built up.

Weese- I don't mind if it floods every10 yrs.

Eckbo- But won't it be soggy in winter?

GEC- We’ve already discussed permeable paving earlier- to allow grass to withstand heavy use. 

Belluschi- Is symbolic of slow start and ending of Viet Nam war with causalities.

Sasaki- This has sense of heroic- that one ^a sense of gratitude 

The (gate) colors are associational- white and black

Belluschi- I was prepared to fight for this^- but its easy to get enamored of it.

Sasaki- Compares them one by one.

Weese- Nothing but sculpture here- all the architecture has dropped away. 

We discuss how all them will reproduce in print. 

Sasaki- To choose ^ would show jury's not influenced by the presentation.

Page 167

Paul- The credibility of our discussion rests on all your choices, not just your number one. To the extent the public knows all your choices this (#1,2,3) will carry even greater conviction. 

GEC- The ^ will take a lot more explanation..

Speaks for the gate.

Nivola- These represents 2 judgments on the war of VN. 

One a statement, one is a quiet reverence. 

Eckbo- Gate is a traditional statement.

Belluschi- simple as it is, it ^seems to be a burial ground, it implies a lot of people tucked away… sad.

Eckbo- it looks like a burial ground

Belluschi- Main thought- a reconciliation.

Weese- Gate is a memorial to individuals.

But ^ is implied as sedimentary rock that goes across the country. [the exposed fundament that underlies] (the surface)

Hunt- we have to be careful of psychological implications here. 

These are all conditional.

Eckbo- symbolism is unpredictable in a heterogeneous culture. 

We don't know how these will work on millions of people.

Hunt- We have take a chance here.

Sasaki- another aspect: as for the audiences: A. parents will be pleased with gate not with ^; B. some will be annoyed with heroic gate; C. sponsors want to make this a healing process.  I told them they can't 2nd guess us, I would mind.  Veterans are better; D. Dissidents object to the whole war- but that's not the purpose here. 

If we look at all the audiences and satisfy them- that’s our task. 

Eckbo- there's another audience- the Vietnamese who were slaughtered.

Belluschi- objects to names on floor of (#117) and I’d put it out. 

We agree to drop # 117

Page 168

3:20pm- We’re down to 4: (Sasaki rises to interpret all of them- what they have in common.)

Suggest #375 is less secure.

Belluschi interrupts- Re^   It’s a sculpture and should be taken as a sculpture.  There will be a lot of unhappy people at its presentation.

7 to 1 vote to remove # 375

Belluschi- It’s beautifully rendered + praised [what requirement?]

[now 17 could be Honorable Mentions]

Unanimous on # 579 for 3rd place. 

We vote secretly on #1 at 3:30 pm.

6 for #1026, 2 for #343. 

Move to make it unanimous.

Agree to unanimous vote for #1026

(now open up the envelopes)

#1- (#1026) Lin, Maya Ying- student New Haven, CT.  b. 1959

#2- (#343) Team - Marvin Krosinsky, Brighton

         and Victor Ochavkosky age 52- Brooklyn NY & Island Park

#3- (#579) Team group from EDAW Inc., 2227 Glasgow Rd., Alexandria, VA 

Brady, Sheila- EDAW, age 28-- 

Brown, Joseph- EDAW- team leader, age 34

Hart, Fredrick- sculptor

Hays, Douglas- EDAW

Vergasom, Michael- EDAW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Honorable Mentions

Individuals -  8  and 7 teams of 2 to 5 each, ages up to 67

4 sculptors, 2 architects, 1 student, 1 designer

Teams- 5 architect teams, one LA team, one that is probably students.

Page 169

#1 Text: (see my transcript)

This design will exhibit to the public some of the ambiguities of the Vietnam experience- a gradual beginning and ending rather than an abrupt, instantaneous Big Change.

This is a low place of contemplation, somewhat removed from the rest of Washington, sunken in repose, suggesting remorse.  But just up the slope the surrounding world again comes into view.

Misc- Emotional power of concentrated names

Beginning and ending (in the earth) 

This is not self conscience and assertive-

Yet once in its presence, one will feel compelled to enter and reflect. 

This in no way competes with vertical Washington.

Being sunken, it is removed from noise.

(Yet planes roaring overhead will be a constant reminder of the noise and rush associated with war.)

The landscape of classical Washington itself becomes essential to the memorial which is put into it - not plopped or dropped down on it.

This does not attempt to spell-it-all out for the public- but provides an unassertive space where visitors may bring their own memories and hopes for contemplation.

PS- this "breaks" with the curvilinear tradition.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Geography {of Honorable Mentions)- all over the map:  South Bend, IN; Santa Barbara, CA; Putney, VT; Dubuque, IA; Jerome, AZ; Minneapolis; New York City; Austin, TX; Marquette, MI; Ann Arbor, MI; Chevy Chase, MD; Princeton, NJ; Warrenton, VA; Washington DC; Silver Springs, MD

Page 170

P.S. This will be difficult for VNVF {Viet Nam Veterans Fund} to accept and the public.

It almost looks amateurish. (does not speak well for itself)  Little skill in delineation.  Little more than an idea.  It’s deceivingly simple.  When built and built right, will be a great memorial in the right place doing the right thing. 

Recommendations of the jury {to Grady for formal presentation}

1. why chosen 

2. how it responds to program

does honor memory

  fits site 

can be built in budget,

likely to get a jury ok,

can hold and exhibit all names, 

no great maintenance

enduring in interest

Rosati- note- You pick a pebble up- it is complete in and of itself

It is open-ended and simulative.

This could not be built anywhere else.

          It depends on both Washington and Lincoln Memorials. 

They are white- rear up- this black and dour

Concluding: Not a thing of joy- but allows space for hope.

One is commanded by those other symbols of hope-

and accomplishments- the great buildings visible around it

This creates a new set of relationships/

Visitors can come here in homage-  GEC- There is no escape

                                                                                                                              Questions to be resolved                                 

1. selection of stone

2. top of wall 

3. placement of names

4. surface of grass for walking

5. grading and drainage

Procedure 

We describe it point by point

We praise it

Satisfies requirements (cite and list)                                                                                                

However, it will seem so simple that its presentation belies the concept.

Therefore, we want to explain why this was chosen.

Other jurymen must support-------It is complete and worth explaining.

Page 171

To be read in detail though it looks so simple

Commentary- 

"is that all there is?" 

A. Jury's comments

B. Designer’s text

• We are confident that this will be debated for years to come

[We're not accustomed to saying "great" to things

that don't stick up in the air. ]

Some great memorials have deceptive simplicity in their form. 

"But it looks so amateurish"?

• Only at first glance.  Simplicity is deceptive.

2nd look shows a depth of the experience you'll get by going there once it has been built. 

A manmade wall at the end of a manmade valley= a manufactured landscape (only the latest change in what was once a swamp)

Friday a.m. Discussion continued

Belluschi- We’re at an age where superficial transitory quality and pizzazz are so obvious.  To find a beginning here- understated, is a good antidote to all that's happening to us. The greatest value over long time is to get beyond the superficial. This suggests intrinsic values. 

Eckbo- when you think…

You wouldn't call it a non-building.

Sasaki- {to Grady} you might just read your unedited notes.

Page 172

Rosati- Would it be appropriate to call it a work of art and not call it ether sculpture or architecture?

An idea given body by this form and shape. The land itself is the sculpture-the form- and is the counterpoint to the 2 monuments.

Weese- You can compare the needle 500'- this is 400’.  Men have always worked the earth with terraces, plow furrows - this is our work.

We went to VN with high ideas and got….

It would be a mistake to glorify the memory- but humility is the spirit.  

By giving priority to the names that fulfills….

Rosati- This is the best memorial to use nature without dominating the site... it is an identity of its own-

Belluschi- It’s a form...

GEC- We don't want to stir up guilt.

Belluschi- It’s a work of poetic content- more than a piece of visual art.

Rosati- It’s not an object- which "art" has come to connote.

I’d like to stay away from word "art." 

Nivola- But it answers to the expansion of our awareness... of our aesthetic perception...

...the expansion of our vocabulary..

Belluschi- Watch out for over elaborate description. 

Rosati- It’s almost an outdoor chapel- will invoke a form of spirituality.

Page 173

Weese- It's an embracing form- it reaches out- like an open book- it’s not closed....

should open up to see the Lincoln Memorial. 

Rosanti- Scope is a word I like.

We discuss the names order- Sasaki says we should leave it alone. 

Others agree!

Weese- Recommends graphic designs of highest order...

"top quality engineer to be sure it rests {on the site}. 

Discuss the tone of the jury report:

Weese- First paragraph should be like a telegraph.

Sasaki- Don't like "declare"- sounds pompous.

Weese- We don't decide- we recommend. 

Sasaki- "Significant work of art" sounds….

Eckbo- Do you incorporate the jury comments in….

Hunt- Agrees with Sasaki- tone it down. 

Rosati- Don't compare with anything else.

Hunt- Lets….

Weese- Methinks thou dost protest too much.

Should not speak of vandalism.

In 10 seconds you need:

The jury found #___ to be the finest and most appropriate and recommends it be built on this site as designed..

"Clearing the ground is as powerful as piercing the sky."

She did the simplest thing- went to the one place where the 2 lines intersect.

Page 174

Belluschi- Art being a vessel is important.  The depth of experience

depends on what you put in it. One can go as deep as one's capacity for feeling.

Sasaki- I agree with Weese's statement but it’s too simple.

Don't say "as designed," say "to be built." 

Paul- They {VNVF} will be baffled, surprised, and disappointed. 

You need to convey your thoughts to them. 

You should make one statement (to VNVF and press.)

Your interchange today will be important.

1. I'll explain.

2. GEC delivers formal report

3. Describe it before you show it.

Sasaki suggests GEC read the unedited comments, then the formal statements. They can catch our sincerity and conviction.

Paul- They'll be baffled! Fully, freshly. In their minds: "What will our supporters do? How affect fund-raising?” But this is supportable. 

You've got to give ‘em a rationale. 

Gotta watch for temper... should read her statement first (designer) 

My first reaction was: "Oh my god, they'll blow up."

1. GEC read jury statement

           2. "        “     designer’s statement

           3. “        “     designer’s concept

Eckbo- You should say all her energy went into the concept

Confess it took us a while to grasp. 

Paul- I'll suggest they give it time.

(It took the jury 4 days!)

Rosati- Unique sites demand unique solutions. 

Page 175

Rosati- We didn't want a necropolis.

Sasaki- Don't make an “unveiling” big deal.

Belluschi- We have chosen a profound understatement 

and avoided superficiality. 

PRESENTATION

1.  Spreiregen

2.  GEC notebook

3.  Bring in 1-2-3 and give

4.  GEC reads award

5.  "       "   designer’s statement

6.  GEC points out main features of 1-2-3

7.  Paul Spreiregen answers question. 

PS- This will take its place among the most profound memorial of all time.. a magnificent…if the community can be shown its merits.

Jack Wheeler- This is genius.  She went down.  I'd never have thought of this in a thousand years.  I applaud (all do so). 

We have an info management problem. How do we convey {this} to the public- especially to the professional VN vet?  How present to the nation in the same gracious way that Grady has done. 

What about cost? 

PS- Lotta work between now and Wednesday.

Doubeck- This is a memorial to all who served as well as to those who died.  This seems to be a memorial to those who died. 

PS- The design depends on Lincoln Memorial. 

Rosati- It’s for us to remember.   It gives hope for life itself-- it has a beautiful serene quality.  Only the living will experience it.

Page 176

Eckbo –Memorial is not a park for all to enjoy...but a theater for life-

for people to gather and picnic.

Sasaki- What was so good- it evoked many things- the widespread arms embrace all of Washington area.  When you’re in, you're uplifted- a subtle thing.  We saw literal messages- a weaker way of stating we didn't come to this decision lightly- these 3 were the final contenders. You look at these and say what is it? 

This is too heroic. (Re our #2)

Doubek - We never used the word "war memorials." 

We have an act of Congress to establish a memorial to those who served… but this a memorial to those who died.

GEC- Open site is a place of contemplation and reconciliation of all who come.

Hunt- Yet program required the names of those who died.

Cost - If granite costs $15,000 per running foot—It’s only 400 feet long,

This is the least expensive of any we have seen.

How will it wear in summer?

How about a walk?  We avoided trying to change the artists concept.

We'll have to promote this.  Your details should come to us.

We need a model to show the press.

GEC- We'll get a scale model.

Weese- She needs to be protected (from the sharks)

So this marvelous thing isn't chewed up by lawsuits.

Rosati- This will enhance the serenity of the place

Weese- It will be ruined by orange crime lights.

I don't think you'd want it.

Page 177

Where will we be attacked?

Rosati- You're bound to get some flack.  Every new element shakes people up.

What will they say?  "They dug a grave--or put it in a open hole... that'll kill us."

Belluschi- You'll have to...hammer this through.

Eckbo- We should not sell the public short.  A lot of people out there will understand it.

Weese- You should have a reception for the tastemakers.  

(Dillon Ripley et al at preview) If you could get this in the East Wing….

Doubek- 10:30 press conference Wednesday - at AIA Board Room Later to the hill 

Suggests jury call finds friends and say "this is a winner”

i.e. informal communication

Doubek- This will be open to public next Saturday.  Should we make personal calls?

PS- Von Eckardt {Washington Post architectural critic} will be offended.

This speaks eloquently for itself. 

Doubek- If those pictures go out, we'll get a lot of calls. 

Can the jury act as critics. 

GEC- we've already done that among ourselves.

Paul- This makes it easy to go to the review agencies..

We’ll have to protect this designer- undergraduate @ Yale. b. 1959

Doubek- She probably doesn't even remember the VN war.

Sandy- The problem is expectation of honoring those who died and  served,  Conservative America may not respond to this work.

How {can you} help me explain this veterans organizations, to corporate America.  It's taken an hour here.

Weese- Corporate America is light years ahead of the American Legion. 

This is the most conservative of all designs. 

Weese- People are very forgiving.

Page 178

GEC- We didn't think we should force a shot gun marriage. 

Weese- This is…I am concerned with the definition of the area of the memorial.  Is the world to be told this is the edge of the VNM?

Paul- NCPC et al will want to be sure we do not disturb the integrity of this design... it doesn't need a strict line.

Weese- Nothing else will be there

I thank the jury.  This cannot be built anywhere else.

Can this have a plaque?

Paul- There's not one on the Lincoln Memorial.

A 2-stage competition is useful to allow people with great ideas to develop it further. But all the public review processes in DC will force its refinement.

Sasaki- All these details can come in later. 

Bob Frank- What keeps NPS from putting a railing on this? 

Weese- It can have a sunken walkway and capstone to sit on so people don't fall over the rail.

Jan Scruggs- I really like it!  It’s easy to raise $ for this.  I'm quite pleased.  It will take a bit more explaining than a bronze soldier on a pedestal!

Doubek- Re #2 team- #3 team of EDAW

HM's include Peter Blake, Henry F. Arnold, and Meade Palmer.

Jack Wheeler- We're concerned about how we inform the winner.   She’s 21 on campus at Yale.  Yale is trying to raise 1 billion. 

Stakes are high.  Paul and I may tell the winner in person.  She'll tell everybody! The point is security of information. 

Page 179

Spreiregen- Winner is a cute little Chinese.

Maya Ying Lin- will stay at residence of Cathy Kaelish a dentist. {She} will go to the site at 10:30 am Wednesday am. 

Problems keeping the lid on the story.  She wanted to tell Vincent Scully.  GEC should encourage {her} not to blow it in any way if it's not to turn into a Roosevelt memorial.  This shows that a well run, well juried concept can win. She'll need a lot of help.  Should seem safe in our hands.

GEC- Nobody's written a book on how to get it finished. 

PS- Goes into description of this waterworks design.

(I'm not impressed. GEC) 

The Story - From Athens, Athens, Ohio this- poor part of Ohio 

Father is Chair of the Fine Arts Dept. at the University of Ohio.  Had open heart surgery.  They will come.  Three of our people went Friday night {to New Haven.}  Brought her Saturday to DC.

Got 2 models- drawings not clear.

Send expenses to Bob Doubek

PS: I kept all my papers- 

When- 1st who saw it was Rosati 1st day.  Then he dropped it.  He was only one who had it on first list.  Then at Tuesday all had seen all {entries}- then  it  had 3 votes... Eckbo, Weese, Nivola. 

By the time the whole group looked at it, all had discussed the themes and directions. 

Page 180

Paul- I had put it in the Blue Section.  For the jury to find it shows they looked, and my sorting out hadn't warped the selection.

Things To Do- Identify names of twenty other candidates (variety of designs/backgrounds)/ Research them 

Approx. May 14, 1981

Page 192:  

Vietnam Memorial: Great art can transcend logic and transform everyday existence- can help one see the invisible, sense the unthinkable.